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Have to share these two links posted on monkeygroup awhile back.
Read The Hypocrites of Homosexuality An essay Card wrote in 1990.
And this interview he did for Salon in 2000. LOL....the interviewer is a militant Jewish lesbian . Ummmm.....wooops.
I cannot believe this guy wrote a novel as cool and amazing as Ender's Game. I'm glad I read it before I found out some of his other views.
Oh - btw. Are there any Mormons or jack-Mormons on my flist? If you are, please check out the following quote from the first link:
We Latter-day Saints know that we are eternal beings who must gain control of our bodies and direct our lives toward the good of others in order to be worthy of an adult role in the hereafter. So the regulation of sexual drives is designated not just to preserve the community of the Saints but also to improve and educate the individuals within it. The Lord asks no more of its members who are tempted toward homosexuality than it does of its unmarried adolescents, its widows and widowers, its divorced members, and its members who never marry. Furthermore, the Lord even guides the sexual behavior of those who are married, expecting them to use their sexual powers responsibly and in a proportionate role within the marriage.
Just out of curiosity - what guidelines does the Lord prescribe for married Mormons and the use of their 'sexual powers?' Is there a list of approved positions?
Read The Hypocrites of Homosexuality An essay Card wrote in 1990.
And this interview he did for Salon in 2000. LOL....the interviewer is a militant Jewish lesbian . Ummmm.....wooops.
I cannot believe this guy wrote a novel as cool and amazing as Ender's Game. I'm glad I read it before I found out some of his other views.
Oh - btw. Are there any Mormons or jack-Mormons on my flist? If you are, please check out the following quote from the first link:
We Latter-day Saints know that we are eternal beings who must gain control of our bodies and direct our lives toward the good of others in order to be worthy of an adult role in the hereafter. So the regulation of sexual drives is designated not just to preserve the community of the Saints but also to improve and educate the individuals within it. The Lord asks no more of its members who are tempted toward homosexuality than it does of its unmarried adolescents, its widows and widowers, its divorced members, and its members who never marry. Furthermore, the Lord even guides the sexual behavior of those who are married, expecting them to use their sexual powers responsibly and in a proportionate role within the marriage.
Just out of curiosity - what guidelines does the Lord prescribe for married Mormons and the use of their 'sexual powers?' Is there a list of approved positions?
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My turn to chime in!
Date: 2005-05-21 05:43 pm (UTC)From:Let me make it perfectly clear that Mormons are just like members of everyone else. You will get a completely different response from everyone you ask. It is unfair to clump something someone says in the name of the church to speak for all the members of the church. There is also church docterine and beliefs of individuals. They vary wildly. The official church rule is very conservative, but erring on politically correct: it won't due to piss off the universe, would it? That being said, on to the stereotypes :)
What Card says in his paper is very similar to official church docterine. The church is very much of the philosophy that it's okay to "be gay," just not "act gay." All members of the church are held under the same values. Homosexuality is a sin because two members of the opposite sex cannot be married, and therefore that breaks the "no sex before marriage" commandment. If you really want to make a mormon's head spin, ask them if that means that homosexual couples who get married are therefore not sinning (civil unions and non-church marriages are seen a legitimate in the church's eyes...if it's f/m). The answer, is obviously "no," but it's fun to back them into a corner. :)
Card's paper is what I imagine would be the church's official stance, if not for politics. Arrest all the fags, lock them out of the work place, put them in concentration camps, gas them...but i digress...
I, too, read this and thought "someone's afraid of his own homosexuality!" I do feel sorry for him, if this is the case. Afterall, he's been brought up thinking that his natural inclinations are "wrong," and that he's a dirty person. This would certainly explain his anger!
As for the interview. She is a stronger person than I. The main reason I couldn't bring myself to read Ender's Game (even tho' I have the book) was because of Card's personal views. It is so hard for me to read somthing by an author who views are so entirely at war with mine. It colours my whole experience.
To address you question about married "sexual powers." Again, no one mormon is the same, and everyone has different views. Official church stance is that sex is a beautiful love-act (or some such nonsense) to creat children. Like the catholic church, officially, the church is against anything that prevents pregnancy. Obviously, not all mormons feel this way, just as not all mormons feel homosexuals should be outcast from the church.
~e!
Re: My turn to chime in!
Date: 2005-05-22 10:57 am (UTC)From:Speaking of Ender's Game - I'm watching this awesome documentary on Discovery channel about turning civilians into killers (focusing on basic training for Marines) and the whole brainwashing process the military has developed over centuries.
eeeek....I think I would really hate the military. I don't know how my sister has been able to cope with it. War really sucks. Even the preparing for war part.
Card's essay is a perfect example for why I've abandoned organized religion. It's nice to know that not all practicing Mormons buy into everything the LDS is selling - but if it isn't sexuality it seems as though there is something else about who you are that is unacceptable to official church doctrine, and I've always seen it as another way to control people and make them feel bad about themselves. Life is hard enough at times without the added guilt trip it seems most religions want to put upon you.
Of course there are exceptioins. I went to a few meetings of Wiccans when I was living in California, and a huge number of them were ex-Catholics, ex-Protestants, ex-Mormons. And some of them were even ordained ministers who knew a lot of religious history.
I thought it was just young people who were playing around at witchcraft - but it's a serious religion and I can see why leaders among established religions view it as such a threat. Especially for women, it's very attractive compared to the other offerings.
Getting back to the LDS position on gay people though. It's good to know not all Mormons believe in that shit - but I don't understand how gay people are sinful. I don't believe Jesus ever had anything to say on the subject in any of the gospels. Of course if you look at the old testament, then letting your daughters get raped and having slaves is okay. So you can probably find plenty of quotes about gay people burning in hell. But Christian stuff is all about the new testament. So how can it be justified? And it's not just the LDS - it's all the denominations of Christianity. Although some of the branches are much more open-minded than the others.